Ep 3. Keep your dog safe: understanding muzzles with The Muzzle Movement

  📍 Welcome to the Yappy Hour powered by Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers who want to deepen their understanding of the dogs we share our lives with. I’m your host Nathan Dunleavy and in today’s episode we’re joined by Clara, from the Muzzle Movement. Clara’s work is all about de stigmatizing muzzles and helping dog owners see them as an essential life skill, not as a sign of aggression.

We also dive into the recent XL bully ban and what it means for dog owners, as well as why every dog should be No matter their age, breed, or personality, should be muzzle trained. This is a must listen for anyone who wants to feel more confident and prepared in their dog care journey.

 Hello.

Hi Clara, welcome to the Yappy Hour. Thank you so much for being here with me today. How are you doing?

Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, we’re really good. Wednesdays are our sort of like team meeting day. So we’ve had a day full of like loads of ideas. So

Lovely.

Come up and be able to like, ah, have a minute.

So you’re just buzzing around with lots of ideas and

Everything’s

stuff. Brilliant. Well, I know you’re very, very busy, so I do appreciate you taking the time out to come on to the Yappy Hour to have a chat with me, Clara. So for those who may not know you or the Muzzle Movement, could you share a bit about the Muzzle Movement and what inspired you to start this incredible initiative?

Yeah, I love telling this story. So, yeah, I originally, you know, when I started out with what was the Muslim Movement, which was supposed to be just sort of a advocacy and education page. I had a dog. Tolly and he was muzzled and he had a bite history. He was a rescue and I got him at seven and a half.

I read about Talia. Yeah.

He’s very special. He’s on the wall behind me. He, you know, I experienced for the first time quite a lot of prejudice against him when we were out in public with people saying things like, you know, he shouldn’t be here. You know, you shouldn’t be walking him in these places when actually quite often it was their dog that was behaving inappropriately.

Mine was quite often on a lead and muzzled.

The way

Yeah, we had quite a few negative interactions and I’d worked in rescue a really long time. So I knew that there was stigma of surrounding muzzled dogs, but I hadn’t actually ever experienced it firsthand, you know, with strangers throwing insults at me across the street. And I was like, well, I don’t think I can do a huge amount here, but what I can do is. Start an Instagram and tell everybody about how amazing muzzle dogs are. And I made Tolly a muzzle because I,

Yes.

you know, I had things that I wanted from a muzzle that I couldn’t find. And I was like, Oh, well, it’s like hard on his make bond. And he, you know, I shared it on Instagram just as sort of a side quest to what I was doing. And everyone was like, I think I want one of them. I was like,

Oh,

I think I’m on to something here and naively was like, yeah, I guess I could sell these and then before I knew it, I’d sold 800 in 30 days and I had

oh my.

So yeah, I was like, Oh no, what have I done? Cause I had a full time job. Yeah, I had eyes bigger than my belly. I think, and I was like, come on, I can help all these dogs. Yeah, no problem. I can help you. It actually took me like eight months to get through those first 800 orders. Cause I had no idea what I was doing. So yeah, that’s how I ended up

Whoa. So you just, just sort of fell into it and then overnight it just went crazy.

Yeah, the intention was never to like, you know, I wanted to make the world a bit of a better place for muzzle dogs. And if I could,

Yeah.

the welfare of muzzle dogs while I was doing it, I love that. I didn’t actually want to quit my previous job.

Oh, okay.

I love this just as if not more, but yeah, at

of course.

I was like, what have I done? Yeah.

Oh my God. I love that.

Yeah. I just woke up one day and it’s like, I don’t think I can do my job anymore. I haven’t got

And, no, you had to cut back on, like you say, your full time job because this this beast just grew into, you know, you had to focus your time and energy onto it.

Yeah. And

Oh, wow.

it worked out really well because, you know, I, I left my full time role in May and then sort of by September we had news of the Excel bully ban happening. And

Yep.

by December, you know, yeah, it all was out the water and there’s no way I could have. You know, continued to be a senior training and behaviour advisor at Dog’s Trust during that.

So,

Ah, that’s where you were, the dog’s trough. So, it’s not even been a year yet that you’ve left your full time job. Oh my god!

Yeah, it’s

Wow.

pretty great. It’s just over a year now,

Just,

May the year before, but

hours of May here before,

yeah, we, it’s just over a year. And, you know, this time last year, we were a team of, you know, three and I was calling in all my friends because the bully ban had just happened. And I was like, you need to come and help me.

yeah, getting all your favours.

Yeah. And I was like, quick, you need to come off to work immediately. And

Wow.

this time last year, yeah, we were a team of four just,

Yes.

we’re a team of 12 and you know, they’re

Oh wow.

Yeah.

God, you’ve like tripled your, your workforce and

Yeah.

it’s just this big beast is just growing and growing. So we are going to be touching on the Excel bully ban you know, later on in the episode. So I’m glad you brought that up. But as you already mentioned, muzzles can be such a controversial topic.

Yeah.

do you think there’s still much, there’s still so much? Stigma surrounding them.

I think it’s really difficult. I think that there’s loads of reasons. I think there’s this perception that in some ways, muzzles don’t allow dogs the same freedoms that they would have without a muzzle. So quite often we’ll get comments on our social media, like, well if, if you don’t like it, you should wear it.

You know, if you like them so much, you should wear them. Or how would you like if I tied your hands together? You know, they’re not comparable. A muzzle, you know, yes, there definitely are muzzles out there that are. unethical and unsafe and

Sure.

used for long

Yeah.

But majority of dogs, muzzles provide them with freedom that they wouldn’t have.

So

Exactly.

not taking freedoms away.

Exactly.

the misconception is that, you know, yeah, sometimes need them to be able to do things. Other dogs don’t need them to be able to do.

Yeah.

And then I think that the UK’s legislation around, you know, when a muzzle should be used has a really big impact.

So in the

Yeah.

the only time that a muzzle is legally required is if you have this quote, dangerous dog. And that kind of plays into our perception of why that dog would be wearing a muzzle. We kind

Yes.

obviously they’ve been forced to buy this

Yes.

it’s the law.

Yeah. It’s all just gone a bit nuts. No, I’m a big, I’m a big advocate of muzzles. And being a qualified dog trainer as well. I used to run puppy classes. So muzzle training was part of my puppy classes. It come as standard and people like Oh, this is a bit strange. Why are we doing this? But I was like, well, every dog should be muzzle trained.

And if we can start to introduce them and desensitize them from an early age at a puppy, then it’s not going to be a big deal. And they’re needed for the groomers sometimes, they’re needed for vets. You do not want your dog just having this thing forced on their face. It’s already a stressful experience going to the vets,

Yeah.

to the groomers.

You don’t suddenly want this thing That’s not been trained or desensitized on your face.

Yeah, I think first time that, you know, dogs wear muzzles, it’s just this like fun and novel experience. It doesn’t have to mean anything. It can just be a really great game to help confidence build, putting their face into novel objects. It doesn’t have to

exactly.

you know, because one day my dog, may end up biting the bed. You don’t know. But I

Yeah.

At the moment, like, we don’t know what scenarios our dogs might be put in in the next sort of 5, 10, 15 years. I think the bully ban,

Yeah.

also, like, I had quite a few interesting conversations this week because there’s been lots of natural disasters over in the States, I just, like, that sort of scenario where you’re in an emergency, you don’t know who’s going to be handling your dog, where you’re going to end up, you don’t know if you’re going to be, you know, around other people, around other animals. Having the ability to your dog for a scenario like that, just in case you need to be able to pop a muzzle on. It is sort of invaluable.

Yeah, yeah, without a doubt. I used to do it as the cone game. So they have like a cone and you sort of get the puppy used to the face going in the cone with some treats. The dog that sat on my lap now, he, he has no problems with pop, popping his face into. a bar or like a Costa Club or something like that.

So yeah, it’s really important. I think it comes down to education again. And there’s a number of reasons why a dog could be muzzled, which we can talk about. But yeah, thank you so much. So we mentioned the Excel bully ban there then. So. The Excel bully ban was undoubtedly a huge talking point.

How has that impacted the muzzle movement and the, and the demand for muzzle training resources?

Yeah. I mean, significantly we have, you know, we, this time last year, the bully ban had just been implemented. We were just finding our feet and we were sort of flung into this new stratosphere. And I think it would be unfair to say, you know, the Excel bully ban didn’t benefit us from a business point of view.

Of

Of course, yeah, yeah.

And I think that’s important to note, because although we absolutely wish that it never happened, it had, it forced us to move very quickly, which I think is why we are further ahead than we would have been otherwise, because we were sort of flung into a position where we wanted to make sure that resources and muzzles were available immediately.

Yeah.

What’s that needed the most, but the thing that we’ve probably outside of, obviously, you know, sales for sizes that would fit XL bullies tripling.

Yeah.

We have hosted free fitting days, which are open to any breed

Wow.

read that comes here more than any other breed is the XL bully or an XL

Is it, is it?

Yeah.

okay.

And

Yeah,

all over.

They took, you know,

really?

XL bully. Guardians have driven, you know, eight hour round trips

Oh, wow.

You know, come and, you know, have a bit of support because on our fitting days, it’s not just about how that muzzle fits, it’s how we can introduce it safely the first time, you know, perhaps they’ve really struggled with different muzzles or even our muzzles so it’s sort of walking them through how we might want to introduce it for their specific dog because sometimes

Yeah,

Dogs, they’ve had to wear a muzzle.

They got, they got three months notice and that was if you believed it was going to happen, which a lot of people didn’t. So muzzle training in three months is really hard

it is. Yeah, it just,

all this pressure. So,

yeah, it just came out of nowhere. And then, you know, suddenly everyone’s having to get muzzles. They didn’t even know where to get them from. And, you know, obviously train. And yeah, it just it was a really stressful time. I know for a lot of ex algaeoners. Great that they found you and that you put on these.

these fitting days. What do you think is missing from the conversation about about breed bans and muzzles in general?

Yeah. I think that, well, there’s a few things, there’s, you know, breed bans as a whole, you know, I couldn’t disagree with more.

Oh God, that’s, that’s a whole other episode.

But in terms of specifically, you know, the perception of dogs that have to wear a muzzle because they’re legally mandated to, I think there’s a lot of, oh, it’s so sad that they have to wear a muzzle. Oh, it’s so miserable. I would, I would move out the country. I would never subject my dog to that. I think. Okay, fair enough. Like, if you think a muzzle is that awful, I think if they were to actually ask a lot of the Excel bully guardians who’ve introduced their muzzle slowly and they’ve invested the time in an appropriate fit and, you know, they’ve done all the desensitization and counter conditioning, dogs aren’t that impacted by the

The

the public’s perception,

perception.

Yeah, the, you know, having to be on lead all the time, because being on lead I think is more restrictive than a muzzle in a lot of cases, like loads of muzzle dogs can have enjoyable off lead exercise with a muzzle on.

yeah.

I think that of people focus on how awful it must be for that dog to have a muzzle on, but

Okay.

the Bully Bound, and a lot of the time it’s not actually the muzzle.

It’s not, and to the dog, it’s probably not a big deal. Yeah, there’s this alien

Yeah,

and they may not have, you know, may not have had to experience that before, but from the dog’s point of view, it’s not really a, probably a bigger deal. It’s everything else that’s going on, isn’t it? It’s all the other crap that’s surrounding it unfortunately.

And we, we mentioned about the owners as well. Obviously they were feeling overwhelmed or they were feeling judged when their dog had to wear a muzzle. How do you think we can change this narrative to create a more, a more, a more supportive culture around what muzzle wearing?

I think part of that comes from the way that we talk about dogs that are muzzled. So if we’re saying things and repeating things and putting them out in the world about how awful that must be, you know, how uncomfortable that must be, we are reinforcing the narrative that they

Yeah, we’re, we’re creating that negative narrative, aren’t we?

And I think a lot of, know, bully guardians have learned actually out of everything the muzzle is not the worst bit. So they aren’t saying, you know, I wish he never had to wear this muzzle. I think really they would prefer not to have to neuter and not, you know, to have to keep him on lead.

Yeah,

but yeah, I think that there’s. There’s lots of work that can be done about the language that we use to describe

yeah,

And a lot

yeah.

needs to happen on helping the wider population understand that, you know, dogs aren’t just muzzled because they are, quote, dangerous dogs. There’s a huge amount of reasons why dogs might be wearing a muzzle, and actually you haven’t got a clue why that dog’s wearing a muzzle. So about it.

Yeah, it all comes back to education again and I’m really big on sort of education and owners being educated. But this area in particular, like you say, there’s hundreds of reasons why they could be wearing it. And it just comes down to education again brilliant. Thank you. So we’re gonna move on to the importance of muzzle training for every dog.

We sort of already touched on it a little bit there. But why do you think it’s so important for every dog regardless of age or breed to be muzzle trained?

Yeah, I think like I mentioned before, you never know what scenario you’re going to be in if my worst case scenario is, you know, I’ve got a small dog. I’ve got a very big dog, but I’ve got a very small dog. She’s 12. My Biggest fear is that we are out in public you know, a larger dog bigger than her comes, bowls her over, she’s injured in some way, and she’s not good at veterinary handling, she’s not good with strangers, and she doesn’t, she’s lived with my partner for eight years, and still now he can’t pick her up to put her

Oh,

does it, of her own, you know, free accord, but he can’t put her under pressure to do that, so, you

Oh, bless her.

That’s a big fear of mine that we will end up in a medical emergency and, you know, I might need help.

I might need help. You know, I, you know, it’s not just another dog. It could be that we get hit by a car. I don’t know. I could need help as much as she needs help or in a car accident. I don’t know. And I just think if she didn’t have the skill of muzzles at that point, how would she have adequate veterinary care?

It just wouldn’t happen. And she’s so special that I’d be

Yeah.

just ignore me. So her.

Yeah.

And on that note, you know, my larger dog, my worry is potentially he could inadvertently injure something, somebody else, you know, live, not livestock wildlife in particular. I just think he’s got such a high prey drive. He’s

Yeah.

anyway, because he’s currently exempt, even though he’s not an exiled bully, but a whole nother topic.

He could have been exiled bully when he was eight months ago, but now he’s almost,

Oh, and there’s that thing in it about if they fitted in to type and it was all done on height or something. And,

yeah,

oh,

yeah, but

it was,

his muzzle all the time. So

yeah.

found in the last year of him wearing his muzzle, the amount of different contexts that I have used his muzzle, even though that wasn’t the original intention of him wearing his muzzle. So when visitors come, he really hard mouths, which is not fun for the people that visit.

This one mouths.

Yeah,

Yeah.

him as a muzzle in that scenario, one, so that he can have safe and comfortable interactions with those people, but two, so that people visiting are more comfortable.

yeah, I’m not going around there again.

And he’s so big as well, like when he’s jumping up and mounting it, it’s really not fun.

It’s not fun. I mean, this one does it because he’s over excited and and then over aroused and obviously he’s Marvin because he and he wants attention. He’s an attention seeker, but you know, he’s got his other issues as well. But no, I mean, another reason I wouldn’t have even thought to put a muscle on them to stop him.

Malvin, because like my, you know, my parents are getting older and they don’t want him nipping at him and it hurts. Their skin is not as tough. So I really, I’m really interested to know what breed is the 12 year old, the little one,

She is, she’s a Cavalier Cross Westie.

Oh.

Mostly, in fact, I don’t know if you can see, she’s on the wall behind me, I’ve chopped

Okay.

But she’s Cavalier Cross Wesley, but she gets called a puggle all the time.

Oh

but yeah, she’s exceptionally cute. She’s called Pig, and I’ve had her my, you know, for the,

she’s called, she’s called pig.

Pig.

I hope it doesn’t give her a complex. That’s for sure. For whatever reason, I thought you were going to say Chihuahua because I’ve got three. And again, Chihuahuas have got such a bad rep, haven’t they? As an aggressive dog when really they’re just so spirited. You’ve got so much character.

yeah.

because they’re snarling and they’re baring their teeth, they’re deemed aggressive. So I thought you were going to say you had a chihuahua.

I mean, she, one of the girls in the team does have a chi, so we’re big chi advocates here. And

Oh, great.

One of the things that, you know, really frustrated us in the bully band was loads of people saying, Oh, actually, you know, they aren’t the worst. XL bullies aren’t the worst. You

Yeah.

like, no, not breed stereotype, one breed and then stereotype another one in defense of the other one.

And it’s all, and chihuahuas do get a bad rep. They’re always used in courses and stuff. Yeah. Anyway, I could get on my high horse, but let’s move on to the next question. So what are some of the common scenarios where muzzle training can make a big difference for their dogs and their owners? Like we said about, you know, the vets, the groomers.

I really liked your, your example then of your own dog and visitors.

This is a big one. I think that we if we utilize muscles more when people come to the home, we wouldn’t have so many dog incidents. Dog bites predominantly happen inside the home with people that we know, right?

yeah,

just because your dog is in the home and with people, you know, doesn’t mean that that is a completely safe and void of risk scenario.

yeah,

I think that muzzles should be considered part of an option available to dogs that might need them. Their scavenging is another huge reason. Probably second, I would say, most popular reason for people to choose a muzzle is dogs that eat items they shouldn’t. They live in areas where there’s bait or poison.

yeah,

It might be that they ingest items they shouldn’t like they, you know, they really enjoy toy play, but once they’ve ordered the toy, they try and swallow it, or

yeah,

it could be that they poop, or they’re on a special diet. So maybe

yeah.

something and they’re not allowed to eat everything they come across.

So

Yeah, there’s loads of reasons, isn’t there? Medical, medical reasons that it’s an older dog yeah, like you said, there’s so many reasons, but it’s just instantly people just like, oh, the dog’s aggressive. And we need to get away from that narrative because

absolutely.

there’s a number of reasons, you know, we need to, need to look beneath the surface and not judge.

It’s putting off people that actually a muzzle would make their life significantly less stressful. You know, if you’re walking a dog and you’re worried about them eating everything they find, and they have a medical condition that means potentially it’s life threatening if they do eat that thing, the reason they don’t want a muzzle is because they’re worried what people will think. hindering their welfare and their dog’s welfare, which is really miserable when you know, you think of it like that. So,

Yeah.

There is definitely this

Okay.

We need to judge people less for the

Yes.

their individual dogs

Yeah,

in turn consider things for our own individual dogs that maybe we thought we wouldn’t have previously.

and I think the Excel bully ban has brought this, this shift and this focus more on muzzles, hasn’t it? And I think if we can just, like, help educate the owners a bit more even if it’s done at the groomers at the vets, at puppy training classes, if we can just help the The owner navigator, because most owners just want the best for their dogs.

Yeah

Yeah,

and yeah, we need to not be quick to judge. So talking about our owners, then, those that are nervous about starting muzzle training, what would you say is the first step that you would recommend?

Yeah, for me, I think there’s loads of things that are great to do, but I think perhaps finding other people that use muzzles for all sorts of different reasons, right, because I think when we are you know, a dog guardian and we’re considering using a muzzle for the first time, we might think we are one of a minority of people that are going to use a muzzle.

because the dog is not aggressive when actually it couldn’t be further from the truth. The majority of people that buy our muzzles, obviously the bully ban is a huge one. Those dogs aren’t aggressive dogs and then challenging. So if you were to follow us along on socials, the majority of dogs that are tagging, tagging us in their posts and stuff, they’re just normal dogs that eat poo or like.

Most, most do eat poo, or they eat horse poo, or, or they roll in fox poo, they might try and eat that.

You are not on an island on your own and you aren’t the only person in the world that’s considering a muzzle. There’s hundreds and hundreds of people that reach out to us every day asking whether we think a muzzle would be appropriate for their scenario. our answer was always, it’s always useful to have it, even if you think, OK, but it’s not that big of a problem.

I can manage it. You know, I can use baby gates or I can keep them on lead or I can. OK, I agree. All of those things are phenomenal management strategies.

management.

That sows a muzzle.

Yeah, and a muzzle, yeah.

Yeah,

I think it’s just breaking down that stigma, and we’re starting to get there. So how can we make muzzles feel like a normal and positive part of the life for our dogs?

I think there’s, there’s quite a lot to be said there for people showing their dogs living happy lives, wearing a muzzle, I think

Yeah.

wear events and go, can a dog even drink through a muzzle? Yes, dogs can drink in muzzles. They can drink eat if it’s safe to do so. Otherwise you get scavenger guards that prevent them from eating, but they can take, treat through a muzzle.

They can, you know, regulate their body temperature.

I can pant.

Yeah, they can do everything that they could do before a muzzle, just can’t do it with their mouth, right?

Yeah.

I think that there’s a lot to be said for people that, you know, show their dogs, they’re out in public with their dogs, living a good life, sharing

Yeah.

media, and making sure that people understand that actually, some of these dogs are living better lives than dogs that don’t have access to muzzles, who might not, have the confidence to take them to the places that the confidence that a muzzle provides would give.

So,

That’s a big part. I think also there’s learning more about muzzle fit. So quite often if

Yes.

A member of public comes to us for the first time, they’re like, I’ve tried a muzzle but she hates it. She’ll never, she’ll never wear a muzzle, they’re awful, my dog hates them. And that is, the muzzle is not very well fit, so it’s quite restrictive, the dog’s not comfortable, they can’t regulate their body temperature, they can’t pant in the same way, and I probably wouldn’t like that either if I was, I was a dog and I was like, no, I need to cool down now.

Yeah.

So,

Yeah.

that has a much bigger impact than we realise, is

Yeah.

putting restrictive muzzles on dogs and then saying, oh no, all muzzles are terrible because my dog hates them, we need to assess fit as much as we need to assess, you know, how that muzzle was introduced.

Definitely. I don’t think sometimes certain TV programs, how people like they were going on about a certain breed on this morning yesterday. And that’s now, that’s now gonna, you know, probably start to take some.

Yeah, I think the media has a huge role to play in the bully band, but in the perception of, you know, dogs, and I think that the same with, you know, the images that rescues use the images that that’s used images that trainers use. I think all of us, everybody in the, you know, dog stratosphere

Yeah.

To make sure that when we’re talking about muzzles, we’re using appropriately fitting muzzles, because that might be the only time that person sees a muzzle. If that’s what they think is normal, then they need to use a muzzle in the future. That’s what they’ll reach for, because

Yeah.

So we have a responsibility to make sure that, especially as professionals that are giving advice to the public, we are advising

Definitely.

how to safely introduce a muzzle, but how to make sure that that muzzle is safely fit as well.

Yeah, yeah. Because you don’t want a dog that’s got, you know, got one that’s uncomfortable or too small or too big, you know.

Harder as well, like when when I was in rescue, there wasn’t many muscles available, right? And, you know, these dogs are already really distressed. They’re in kennels quite often. They’re not getting out for as often as they’d like. They don’t have the same human contact time. They might have just suffered like a really traumatic loss or

Yeah.

that has thrown their, you know, social and safety network out of the window.

Yeah.

on top of all of that, I need you to learn a new skill in this thing that is not going to be comfortable. And it

Yeah.

they’re in kennels longer, the training takes longer, they don’t get in a home. There’s this likelihood

Yeah.

behaviour complications might arise due to the duration of time in kennels.

So

Yeah.

critical effect. And it starts with Is it actually going to be comfortable?

Yeah,

mine.

well if I was wearing one, I’d want it to be comfortable and I’d want it to be colourful like yours are and full of bling.

I mean, it’s a terrible example, but it’s a lot like the COVID masks. Like, sure, we could have all worn the PPE, but we all,

We all,

right?

we did, didn’t we? I got some of my business name, like my business name on and got them all branded because I think I’m going to wear it. I might as well.

exactly. if it’s going to keep you safe, you’ll wear it. But if you’re going to wear it, it’s going to look cool.

It’s got to look cool. And, you know, before COVID came in, I used to see, like, certain people from different countries wearing masks, and you’re like, oh, I wonder why they wear that. And then, again, there was a stigma around wearing the mask, and then it had to come the norm, and people are still wearing them now, and that’s okay.

If they want to wear it. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Let’s move on then to talking about some of your success stories, your awards and advocacy the muzzle movement has won multiple awards. So multi award winning. What do these recognitions mean to you in the work you’re doing?

Yeah, I think that everything we’ve done in this last year, it has felt so magical, like the first ever stand at Crufts that was completely dedicated to muzzles, like that’s never been done before.

That’s massive.

Yeah, like being you know, we’ve had our muzzles on TV, we’ve had them we’ve had, you know, from YouTube come and visit and tell stories about us and our story and, you know, I think the awards is just the sort of icing on the cake, really.

It’s like, people see what we’re doing and they think that we are doing a really good job. And quite often when you’re in the thick of it, and you’re juggling templates and, you know, running around, like, let’s check it out. You forget there’s actually people watching and hoping that you do well.

Is that clear?

you do get a bit bogged down, you know, with the bully ban, we missed deadlines, we were inundated, we wanted to make sure we got them out quick and sometimes we, you know, we were slower than we wanted to be. sometimes you get bogged down with that stuff. So it’s nice to, you know, step back and be like, look where we are a year later today.

Yeah, look at what you’ve achieved. That’s amazing. And it was to be expected that you were, you, you, you were just thrown in at the deep end, really. So if there were a few delays, like you, it couldn’t be helped. So you were doing your best.

we’re I’m learning. I’ve never run a business before. I’ve never managed a team of 12. I didn’t know how to manufacture anything.

And you’ve said about spinning, being a business owner, you are spinning a lot of plates. So you’ve gone from like being employed to being a business owner and having staff. And like you say, it’s like. And you forget about some, some of the stuff and it’s nice just to be able to then be recognized for all the hard work you’re doing.

When you’re competing against really big brands, you know, they’re doing some really cool stuff. And when people say no, like we like the message that they have. And I think

yeah,

reflected in the public’s perception of muzzles changing, but also like pet professionals understanding of muzzles is changing as well.

yeah, yeah,

that’s really cool. When I started, you know, I came with what I thought a muzzle should fit and I had a dog and I was like, I think I can do better than this. But before that, I’d never thought about it here. Like not. I thought there are alternative muzzles available for the dogs that I was working with in rescue, only when it was my dog and I was like, I want to be able to deliver treats easier now, was I

yeah.

fixed this, which I’m like, duh, like you’ve had those problems your whole life with dogs. Yeah, it’s

Oh,

hear that.

brilliant. Do you have like a, I mean, you get tagged and sent loads of messages and I appreciate it’s hard to keep up a little bit. Is there a favourite success story from an owner or dog that’s benefited from your resources that stands out at all?

I think we’ve got so many. I mean, we’re always told, you know, Oh, my dog’s worn its muzzle for 10 minutes for the first time ever. Or dog is able to make friends with my mum’s dog who he’s never met before because I feel relaxed and happy and safe and, you know. They’re having safe interactions. And, but I think for me, the, the one that I think like deserves an honorable mention, I suppose, is have a friend that we knew from dogs trust who adopted a dog on the 29th of December.

Right. He

yeah.

Yeah, 29th of December, just before the XL Bully ban, he’s called Hippo and he’s this big sort of bald headed XL bully and she was like, you’re with me. And you know, he’d been wearing a really small muzzle, he’d been introduced to a muzzle and he actually came and he tried on our size Harry and it was too small for his big chonky head, which is

brilliant.

unusual that happens. So he had a muzzle that didn’t fit him very well, his Harry wasn’t a really good fit, so he helped us design. The size bigger. So the first sort of six months of this year, Hippo came five times to our unit and he is

Oh.

absolutely just chef’s kiss, perfect temperament. I am so mad did not take him home.

Oh, you’re getting hippo envy.

I have got Hippo envy, but he, you know, he was saved at the ninth hour from euthanasia because

I think I saw something about this.

Yeah, he made it onto BBC. So yeah, he came and helped design this size for us. He came to the unit five times. We had all these different versions of the size Mitzi, which is the size bigger than Harry. And then, you know, he was the first one to get his hands on it. He road tested it, got it out there in the public. And, you know, now he’s living his best life. He’s been on

Oh,

Yeah, he was on BBC as ITV like

little celeb.

Yeah, he is. He’s like a, yeah, he’s like a, he’s like a perfect example of an Excel bully because he’s just so gorgeous in every way.

Well, he’s advocating for the breed.

Exactly. Yeah, he’s like, I, I will show everybody Excel bullies are friendly. I promise.

XL Bullying Mascot. And I’m a big, I’m a big believer in like being your dog’s superhero as well. I’ve said that in a couple of other episodes, so it definitely sounds like, you know, he’s found his superhero as well.

Absolutely. I just think they’ve not only have they changed Hippo’s life, but bringing him to our unit five times. It’s not that they’re not very local, like they, there was no benefit for them in that I wasn’t paying them that, you know, they didn’t get free and discounted stuff. They just wanted to make sure that other dogs like Hippo had access to appropriate muzzles.

And I just think what they, what Hannah and Hippo did

yeah.

It’s crazy because she didn’t have to do that.

No.

So

that’s amazing.

really special.

It’s really nice when you hear sort of, like heartwarming stuff like that. Particularly on a cold, chilly day. Yeah.

There’s so many phenomenal people that have helped us out along this journey, and I just think like, you didn’t have to do that, but they do it because they love muzzled dogs or they love their breed or, you know,

Exactly.

how magical is that?

Yeah, it’s so magical. Thank you. So what would be your vision for the future of muscle awareness and training in the UK and beyond?

Yeah, I think that I would like to see more people. to the idea of introducing a muzzle, or at least less of an adverse reaction when a muzzle is potentially

Yeah.

by the trainers, veterinary practices, groomers I would like there to be a higher level of understanding of how to introduce a muzzle because

Sometimes when we’re introducing a muzzle for the first time, we want to move really quickly. And that kind of confirms our perception that that muzzle is not very nice because

And the dog’s like, no, I don’t like this. It’s on my face now. And I think that if we understood, actually it’s something that takes time. It’s, you know, it’s not a two day thing. It’s a two, three, four. week, you know, five minutes

Yeah.

thing. Then I think that more people would have more success with introducing a muzzle, because I think a lot of people try and they go, I’ve tried it, it didn’t work.

I give up.

nah, we can do it better this time.

Yeah, with any training it, it takes time. You get, you get out what you put in really. And, but some people unfortunately do want that quick fix and they’re not prepared to put in there. The effort and the time.

yeah. And I think as well, I think that there needs to be a wider understanding of, you know, muzzles aren’t exclusively for woolly breeds. Like, they’re just not. There’s so many small dogs, big dogs, you know,

Yeah,

elderly dogs absolutely can benefit from a muzzle if they go into the vets more or if they’ve got medical

definitely,

And I

definitely.

Something the UK is not great at, which other countries are, like for example, it’s the law that all dogs wear muzzles on public transport. So

okay.

isn’t the same perception in France, if you see a dog out on the tube station waiting to get on a train, there’s no thought in that person’s head, oh, that dog’s dangerous. it’s not, because it’s just getting on a train. And I don’t

what the owner, the owner’s just, no, the owner’s just being a responsible dog owner by,

exactly.

yeah.

And I don’t think that we should have, you know, blanket muzzle rules at all. I just don’t think that that’s right. I don’t think that’s the way that we should be going about. Oh, well, the way we can reduce dog attacks is actually every dog wears a muzzle. I think that’s so silly. I think that actually, if the people that had dogs that were a higher risk.

We’re more comfortable using a muzzle in a variety of different scenarios. You know, not just, oh, well, when they’re out in public, I’ll put a muzzle on. Okay, but if the risk is in the home, then let’s use it in the home. That’s fine.

Yeah.

yeah, I think that dog bites would go down. And that doesn’t involve every dog in the UK needing to wear a muzzle.

It just involves the right dog and the right people using a muzzle in the right context.

Yeah. Fantastic. We would just like to see a few more dogs, different dogs in them, really.

Yeah.

up a bit of a trend on, on TikTok. So this question was thrown in by by Kelly at Yappily, actually. So you’ve had recently the incredible opportunity to speak at the Houses of Parliament. Now I’ve got to get this right, as part of the all party Parliamentary Dog Advisory Welfare Group.

Could you tell us about that experience and what message you wanted to share with policymakers and the importance of muzzles and stuff like that? Wow.

that was so cool. I have never had an opportunity to do anything like that before in my life. I’ve never even been to the Houses of Parliament, let alone been in the Houses of Parliament. And I was like, whoa, I can’t believe this is my

Wow.

Cool. I

Pinch me, David. Pinch me, David.

And I was like, I don’t think you’re not allowed to take videos or pictures inside.

Right. So I was like,

Oh.

you can show people,

Yeah, I won it for the gram.

I was like, come on, this is tick tock where the, but no, it

What an amazing experience.

It was phenomenal to be invited, to be honest, because I just think, you know, it’s such a, quote, hot topic at the moment and I think if momentum is here, and people are talking about it, and we can help that continue, and we can move forward with actually changing the way that muzzle dogs are perceived. we should, you know, even if it’s come from the back of something really awful, maybe we can do some good on the other side of it. So that was phenomenal. And I think they were all so open to, you know, listening and learning about appropriate fit and understanding, you know, why dogs wear muzzles.

Because I think, you know, the average person, including people, you know, in parliament, have absolutely no idea

No,

wear muzzles.

no clay.

So, that was a really cool opportunity to sort of shine a spotlight on us and what we’re doing to help, but

Good.

what they can do to help, which is, you know, change the language they use, consider, you know, not having this knee jerk, visceral response to dogs in muzzles, you know, it’s just, yeah, it was really, really cool.

I loved it.

Good. Are you going to be going back or, you know?

I’ve been invited as part of the app dogs, so they have like a meeting where they go through different policies and stuff that’s coming up and like, just like working groups is a good way

Yes.

And realistically right now we do not have the time. I was like, Oh, I really, really want to, but like, I have a team of It’s all the way in London. Like I just don’t know whether I can. So we’ve sort of mentioned potentially that there is the possibility I could chip into for things over email. I already made some brilliant connections there. A

Oh, good.

So I followed a few of them up, you know, sort of bets that are pioneering for better breeding and to make sure that, you know, we aren’t breeding dogs that have significant medical conditions from birth sort of thing.

Yeah.

I just think maybe there is something that I can do to support those people on their mission as much as they supported me on mine. So, yeah, that’s really.

Definitely. Oh, how exciting. Thank you. Right, we’re going to start wrapping up this episode in the last sort of five or so minutes just for some final questions, et cetera. So thank you. So Clara, what’s one thing you hope our listeners take away from this conversation about muzzles and their importance?

Yeah, so number one would be any dog can benefit from muzzle training. That is the most simple message I

Absolutely.

And then number two would be there are so many reasons that dogs wear muzzles. You don’t know, so don’t judge.

Exactly. Brilliant. If you could give one piece of advice to a dog owner that was feeling uncertain about muzzle training, what would it be?

It would be find your community. So find other people who have experienced the same, you know. Potential thoughts about the perception of their dog wearing a muzzle and to speak to a forestry trainer about it I think that or us, you know, we’re happy to but I think that Being able to sound off to someone and who can reassure you that you are doing what’s right for you and your dog In the scenario that’s so unique to you and your dog And sometimes I think you just need a bit of external reassurance that it’s not cruel.

It’s not mean it’s keeping you safe It’s keeping them safe. It’s a great decision

Definitely. Brilliant. Thank you. Clara, thank you so much for joining me on the Yappy Hour today. It’s been an absolute pleasure, pleasure to hear your insights and to learn more about all the incredible work you’re doing with the muzzle movement. Your Dedication and passion to de stigmatizing, can’t even say that word, muzzles and promoting them as a positive life skill for all dogs is truly inspiring.

The muzzle movement is making such a huge difference. Not only helping dog owners feel more confident, but also in creating a safer, more understanding environment for all dogs. Your work is changing perceptions and making life better for so many dogs and their families.

Yeah. very

take so much away from this conversation.

Clara, how can people find out more about you and the muzzle movement if they want to get in touch?

Thank you so much. That was so sweet. So, yeah, you can find us on social media. It’s the muzzle movement or our website, the muzzle movement dot com. So we’re super easy to find

Yeah.

unit which is in the Midlands. So if you’re anywhere near the Midlands and you

Oh, okay. I did wonder where you were.

Yeah, well, I’m Leicestershire. So if that

Yeah,

people travel over the place to come and all the support that we offer here. It’s a team of, you know, professionals. We can help with any muzzle related challenges or struggles that they might have. So we’re more than happy to

Perfect. Perfect. And that website again is themusclemovementoneword. com. We’re gonna finish on two final questions. Who else do you think we should invite on this podcast? I’m sure you know lots of people. Who do you think we should invite?

So the two businesses that I have helped us significantly since the beginning. So there’s Tug Enough, who,

Yes.

When we launched, I was like what we’re doing. And I got a social media manager who actually also manages Tugging off. And she was like, you know what, there is definitely

Synergy here.

Yeah. And

Yeah.

perfect. Because I don’t know what I’m doing.

Wow. Big, big reveal for our listeners. Danny from Tug Enough is coming on. So watch, watch this space. I’m just chatting with Lara at the moment and getting, and getting Danny on. So that’s a big reveal for our listeners that he will be coming on. I love Tug Enough. So yeah. Okay.

Anyone, anyone else? You said there was two businesses.

The other one was perfect fit. So,

Oh, yes.

yeah, we’ve we’ve, all the professional events we’ve done this year, I’ve been like, there you are again. And

I’d I’d, Nathan how, I’d love to get a contact for Perfect Fit if someone can sort of hook, hook a guy up. Cause I don’t, I love, I love the harnesses and that’s all I recommended again in training. So yeah, Perfect Fit as well then, you, you reckon?

So Rhi, who does their social media, don’t think she’ll mind me saying that. So Rhi does their social media. She’s actually got a dog called Reggie who’s testing a prototype for a new size for us at the moment. So

Oh, right. Yeah.

they’ve given us, you know, some harnesses for some of the older girls that we’ve got at the unit, the, they bring their dogs. I think they’ve helped us a lot as well, like helping us network with suppliers. They’ve provided us with some of their biggest suppliers since we aren’t, you know, in contradiction with the product they’re selling, they’ve sort of said, you know, who would love your muscles, this person who’s our biggest customer.

And they have not. Blinked an eye at sharing that with me and I just think it’s so special that you know, we’re on the same mission You want dogs to be served better. So you’re happy to share that like most

Yeah, that’s, that’s what it’s all about there is collaborating isn’t it and helping each other. No, two great names there. So yeah, watch this space. And one final question. If your dog or any dog could describe how they feel about their muzzle, what do you think they’d say? What’s,

actually think that you know, my dogs would probably be like, well, what is it doesn’t matter like Yeah,

What, you know, what’s the big deal? Give me, give me a treat.

I think we think muzzles are a big deal but actually the dogs think I’m going for a walk. Cool.

Yeah,

I, yeah, I don’t think that he thinks mind blowing things. I think he’s very lucky. He’s had a great muzzle from the offset. It’s never impeded his ability to do anything that he wants to do. And he thinks, that is part of my normal walking equipment.

Let’s go!

I like that. To them, it’s a non event. It’s just part of the equipment, like a harness, a lead or collar. Like, let’s just get, let’s just go. Brilliant. Clara, thank you so much for being here today. I know how busy you are and how busy it is at the Muzzle Movement. Thank you to our listeners for tuning in and I’ll see you next time on the Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily.

Bye bye.

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